PvP Source :: Your #1 Source for Competitive World of Warcraft PvP

29 Responses to “2.3.2 PTR: Deep Subtlety Changes and AR/Prep No More”

Hippyfighter Says:
December 13th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
So I may be alone on this, but I actually like this change; so many were on the harp train and for good reason. But this will have the best players shining through.
Ive Says:
December 13th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
mmmm shadowstep is now super win and super fun.

Best of both worlds!
Reinhold Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 1:06 am
Kills the class imo. LOLstep is still a joke, everyone will see that soon… and so now deep combat and mutilate will once again be the arena builds. It will be as if 2.3 never happened for the class. Rogues will be a 2.2 class fighting 2.3 classes.
Monroebot Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 2:52 am
As a rogue who spent a lot of time getting maces, I am not about to spec out of them… I think I’ll go back to 20/41/0. Isn’t Lolstep on a 30 second cooldown anyway? Kind of lame to burn a 10 minute ability for a 30 second one… they’ve killed Prep imo.
Nexeq Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 6:28 am
I start to hate blizzard more and more.. LOLStep are the most boring build ever hate it.. And whats this? The total kill Prep. And wtf is the reason the delete the AR/Perp build just because there many with that build? and so what?
Tahmus Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 6:33 am
Duhn, Duhn, Dun… another spec bites the dust!
Nexeq Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 6:45 am
Well the thing there suck most about this, is that if you look at other class its the same.. There are like on or 2 spec there are the most popular where only a few points are the different. But other class don’t get it destroyed like Rogue.
Mageknight Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 11:24 am
AR/PRE build is just imbalanced as it is right now. The nerf is welcome. Rogue will still be a powerfull class.
Reinhold Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Where is the evidence that ar/prep was imbalanced?

Are rogues suddenly dominating 2v2s and 5v5s? Are rogues now able to beat all other classes in duels? Are they topping warriors, warlocks and hunters on the BG charts?

What am I missing here?
Ziss Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Back to the talent board I go…
draed Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
the notion that rogues are weaker than warriors in top end arena play, anymore, i think is just false. you can’t point to anything in the top 20 teams of the various brackets that says “see rogues suck compared to warriors!” anymore. the only exception might be 2v2 where you see a lot of druid/war at the top still. but that doesn’t mean that teams like mag/rog, or lock/rog aren’t extremely effective and well represented. in 3’s rogues are extremely prolific. and in 5’s look at the rise of 4 dps teams, almost all of which feature a rogue.

the idea that warriors are so much better than rogues is a TIRED season 1 notion and ppl need to get over it. it’s just not the case anymore. rogues are very well represented at the top. and they are very effective.
Reinhold Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Did you even bother to look at the top 10 teams per server group in the 5v5 bracket at the end of season 2?

I’ll give you a quick summary: Lots of warriors, not a lot of rogues.

2v2s were even worse. Utterly dominated by Warrior /Warlock Druid teams.

I mean, if by well represented at the top you really mean “cracked the top 30, and on occasion the top 10″ then yeah… rogues were well represented.
Zhonya Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Rogues QQ too much. True story.
draed Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
remember back in season 1 when war/pal was all the rage? when war/mag/pal was all the rage in 3’s? lol.

how often are you seeing war’s in 3v3 tournament play now? paladins?

how often do you see rogues? ON JUST ABOUT EVERY TEAM, THAT’S HOW OFTEN!
Ive Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
How many warriors spec MS in arena play? How bout holy pals? How many frost mages do you see? Resto druid is def a big one. Disc priests, ele shams, also very common specs now. All these classes are pidgeonholed in to one or POSSIBLY two specs that are the only viable specs in arena. For rogues this spec was AR prep. Now it’s gone and it’ll be back to combat mace or mutilate playing like early season 2. The only difference is now 4 DPS teams suck(hello pain suppression) and rogues are stuck in 3v3 with a mage and priest.

It’s ok, I’ve given up my rogue for the most part to play druid. Shadowstep is a fun as hell spec to play and it’ll be fun to fuck around with friends with.

P.S. the “rise of 5 DPS teams” happened at the end of season 1 to mid season 2. It’s over now, people know how to combat them, and pain suppression is enough time to outlast their burst and pallies bubble, at which point the 4 DPS team is in deep trouble.
the ish Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
hmm ar/prep was ridiculous anyway, good riddance.

“All these classes are pidgeonholed in to one or POSSIBLY two specs that are the only viable specs in arena. For rogues this spec was AR prep.”

this is a gross misrepresentation. ar prep has only in the past patch become the fotm, and its far from “pidgeonholed”. The fact of the matter is its a tree with more utility / cooldown orientation, and less about just hitting stuff hard. Seemingly rogues were able to get the best of both worlds by having a strong survivability / burst spec that matched the dmg (more or less) of the old 42/19 specs or w/e.
Ive Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
You’re right, but what I meant to say was that AR prep was the strongest spec, that was strong enough that nearly every serious rogue was switching to it, not that it was a rogues only option if he wanted to PVP.

Ar/Prep was better than combat or mutilate for the first minute or so, after that both combat and mutilate offered much higher sustained. I think AR prep played like rogues always used to(really great for short fights,but if it goes on too long we start to run out of steam, rogues should be to opposite on the melee spectrum from a warrior) but I’m not a big fan of “push these buttons in this order, collect points”.

I’m just excited about the shadowstep change, will be fun to mess around with, and shadowstep PVP has more possibilities than any other rog spec. Jumping off the bridge in BE and shadowstepping back as a melee jumps down to follow you so you’re back on top to either get healed or 2v1 his team mate = win
Frosty Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say ar/prep was pretty ridiculous, and had a good chance to beat any class in a duel if played correctly. On the opposite side of the spectrum though, I really don’t want rogues to revert back to season 1 where they’re not wanted. The movement buff for ShS may help bleed kiting a warrior perhaps(?) but I can’t see much else. In either case, at least you guys had some fame in season 2.
Stunning Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
I REALLY hope they make shadowstep break snares/roots that are currently on you. If the ydid that I may spec it seriously. As is I’ll prolly cut my losses and go back to Mut.
Snitch Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 2:12 am
Already specced back to combat maces.
Kolenzo Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 4:20 am
Rogues were doing fine in arena before AR/prep. They’ll do fine after the nerf.
Silenthand Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 6:33 am
Well, I hated AR/prep, I specced it after seeing Acrono’s video along eimt ago, and I played it for along time, first as sinister strike, and then hemo when hemo got buffed. I got bloody bored of it after a while but couldn’t afford to spec out of it without breaking myself. Call me an Optimist but Im hoping shadowstep will be good now. If it is, im really happy; if it isn’t im bloody annoyed. Because I do not want to spec back to 20/41/0
Ive Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
“Fine” doesn’t cut it I’m afraid, unless every other class is also “fine”. When 2 classes in 2v2 (or 3 in 3v3) are better than fine, that makes every other class not good enough, which is not fine. So what needs to happen? Should one be content when their class is just “fine” and can’t get a space on a team full of better than fine classes?

The ultimate dilemma, and the principle reason that most competitive gamers laugh at WoW as an “e-sport”
kyledr Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
Less QQ. So much of this site is rogues ATM, so ofc there’s going to be tons of bitching. Rogues have been just destroying my warlock partner, and there’s nothing I can do about it. It’s ridiculous.
kyledr Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
I should add, it’s all AR/prep rogues, 3s bracket.
Nzgs Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Its all SLSL warlocks, in every bracket, but thats fine i guess. Would be nice if some devs played rogues in arena. SLSL has been insanely overpowered for how long now? The community (even warlocks) have to pester blizzard for months to get it nerfed, and even then the “nerf” is just a fix really. Using their logic, soullink should be nerfed to stop warlocks using SLSL specs stopping at soullink, MS should be nerfed and endless rage buffed to stop warriors stopping at 35 points.
Mageknight Says:
December 17th, 2007 at 5:00 am
Nzgs. SL/SL is op but it is not the only viable lock pvp spec. You see lots of Affi locks in arena aswell.

Rogues will just more variability of specs to choose from and that is awsome. Being able to change specs and gamestyle and still be viable is awsome. If I had a rogue I’d be happy with the changes.
SycoraXx Says:
December 17th, 2007 at 9:48 am
like the site…but is there going to be anything else than rogue QQing in the next few weeks? what happened to all your writers?
darkstrike Says:
January 14th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Wow. bring BACK AR PREP
this is just plain bullshit.
im not tryin lawlstep. its stupid bg shit anyway. so gimme my prep back damnit
oh, lets cry more and they will remove it while we get a free iceblok!!! woot
it was such a bullshit and lightheaded move. WE rogues pay 15$ too ya know -_-
lets have them qq more so they can completely destroy rogues. I soooo wanna see what we get hit with next.
BRING IT ON BLIZZ!!! I CAN TAKE A HIT! im still ar prep and i fckin own!!!! U CANT DO NO MORE TO ME! my love goes out the rogue community
ROGUES FOREVA! KEEP THEM SPIRITS UP! OUR TIME WILL COME!