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Article:
Warlocks and 4 DPS
November 12th, 2007 by Gumbot ·
I am Gumbot. I transferred to BG9 week 1 of season 2 to get away from my bad Battlegroup and onto the most revered one. I did this specifically to run a 4 DPS 5v5, uniting some of the best players from our previous Battlegroup. We were running Spriest/Mage/UA-Lock/Pally/Ele-Sham. Throughout Season 2, The Fallen Angels has maintained a top 5 slot varying from 1st to 5th and has always kept themselves as one of the highest 4 DPS teams in the world. Recently the The Fallen Angels has stopped queuing simply because most of the team got bored with WoW and now play DOTA instead (sigh… although I do admit DOTA takes just about as much micro as wow sometimes).
The strength of 4 DPS is locking down their Warrior, causing all players to play defensively… Their Warrior puts on a shield, their Priest heals instead of Mana Burning or offensive Dispels, their Pally does what Pallys do, even their Elemental Shaman heals and drops Grounding and their CC class, Mage or Lock are forced to CC defensively(for example, they Sheep a DPS instead of our Pally). Refer to the screenshot below and you will see what I meant by forcing the other team to play defensively.
The main problem with our lineup that we faced was our inability to keep Warriors in our LoS. A good Paladin would Freedom our only way of keeping the Warrior from moving – Frost Nova, during our Bloodlust. Our team has to keep the Warrior fully Purged all the time and to make sure that Freedom and Sac comes off instantly. Freedom is applied during times of major stress usually so the Warrior can run away and Sac during the off-times when Warrior’s behind a poll, really only eating instants from the Mage/Lock/SPriest. Killing the Warrior in this particular lineup, we had to make sure that everything was in place: that Freedom was down, our Mage’s pet was ready, our SPriest wasn’t under heavy pressure (which often calls for our Elemental Shaman to heal), and that DRs on our Fear and Poly were good.
Running as the Warlock in this lineup, I felt my role as CC was far more important than damage. Essentially my job was as follows… Usually the fight was initiated by our Mage running in and landing a Frost Nova on their Shaman, Priest and Paladin. Often at the start of the Arena you can land a Nova into Howl on all 3 of them because they clump up together, it’s just the way it is. Just make sure that you aren’t over extending like Quest or Zizek at WSVG (inside joke). Remember that usually the SPriest is the target, but UA Locks lack a ton of survivability as well. Because of that, the initiation is critical in turning the flow of the game over to the 4 DPS. Aside from the initiation, I was required to keep UA up on the Warrior at all costs, as our Spriest cannot afford the mana or the time to keep applying his dots on the Warrior. Thirdly, I would do my best to keep CoT up on their Priest Paladin and Shaman. I especially applied Tongues on the shaman during Bloodlust, as often during Bloodlust, their Shaman can be relieved of healing duties and focus on DPSing our SPriest. Lastly, Fearing the right enemy was most important. I had to watch the overall game when deciding when to Fear, for example, when they are on the offensive during Bloodlust I might Fear a DPS, but usually I stick to the Paladin and Priest. Coordinating good Fears/Polys on the healers is the only way to down someone with this lineup. Some 4DPS are capable of outlasting other teams, but I feel that is only because they have healing debuff.
Using Deathcoil in our lineup was very situational and one of my favorite things to do, as it can often result in the death of a Warrior. It can be used both offensively and defensively. A typical situation: using Deathcoil on a Warrior while their Paladin is bubbled may result in a successful Mass Dispel. If this happens and their bubble is removed, it’s almost a guaranteed victory as most Paladins will bubble right after getting nailed by a CS or CC so their Warrior will be sitting at around 50% health and a Mass Dispel into Silence on their Paladin results in their Warrior dropping.
Deathcoil can also be used defensively. If the Deathcoil wasn’t used during Bloodlust to remove bubble, it’s probably going to be used as the way to kill their Warrior by catching them in Berserker stance with a well timed Deathcoill; preventing their Warrior from Spell Reflecting. Sometimes when you use Deathcoil while the Warrior gains Freedom, they will run into the open field, get their Freedom dispelled and eat a Nova from our Mage, which often leads to quick death. There are also times when a Warrior will Intervene to run away then come back with full health and ready to smash your SPriest off an Intercept. If you Deathcoil the Warrior during Intercept, then immediately followed with Amplified Curse of Exhaustion, the Warrior won’t catch up to your Priest for awhile.
Often times in 4 DPS vs standard 2345(Warrior, Frost Mage, Elemental Shaman, Holy/Disc Priest, Paladin), a 2345 will simply burn all cooldowns and play really offensively. Chances are they will get their Warrior killed by doing so, but they can also kill your Spriest with some ‘well timed’ Mace Stuns, Windfury, Bloodlust, Hammer of Wrath. It does come down to a 4v4 a hell of a lot more times than you would expect, this is where the Warlock shows its true power! With your pet stopping drinking, Resing and of course Drain Mana, and with the Warlocks bane gone (the Warrior) Drain Life is extremely good healing vs Elemental Shaman/Mage. The Lock, in this situation, will be carrying the team to victory, being the only mana independent caster class.
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November 12th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
stop promoting dota, we dont care about dota.
November 12th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
lol…
November 12th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
the first thing i noticed is the war only dealt 4486 damage.. thats crazy cc
November 12th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
“I transferred to BG9 week 1 of season 2 to get away from my bad Battlegroup and onto the most revered one”
Took the easy way out and moved to an easier BG group.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
yea the main thing is to ‘nuke’ the warrior, as hes effectivly the ‘tank’ (lmao this is pvp)
must admit good strat to cain the priest, esp if they are shadow. i have a random spec on my warlock, i use soul attack (uses 1 shard) that is always a great finishing move, when they are massed dots, great to follow up after a death coil
November 12th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
btw, not meaning soul fire the other one, which gives u shard back if they die in 5 seconds of castin, i forgot the name of the spell cus im half asleep at work atm
November 12th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
“the first thing i noticed is the war only dealt 4486 damage.. thats crazy cc”
No, that’s called Warrior gib.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
What are you guys going to do post 2.3 when you waste all of your offensive cooldowns against a Pain Suppression?
November 12th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
lose?
November 12th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Not waste them against pain suppression?
November 13th, 2007 at 1:05 am
Uh.. purge.
November 13th, 2007 at 3:10 am
Good article Gumbot!
Keep it up
November 13th, 2007 at 3:42 am
http://www.geekboys.org/arena/index/5/all/all/all/all/
Jolly Asian Clams.. best 4dps team in the world have them write an article!
November 13th, 2007 at 3:43 am
Im from their BG, they are amazing, running a lock/spriest/mage/ualock/resto shaman combo
November 13th, 2007 at 5:57 am
well, how is it going against the upcoming 3 healer teams?
our 3 healer team outlasted every 4dps we encounter since our ele specced to restoration.
November 13th, 2007 at 7:11 am
lol @ link to dota
November 13th, 2007 at 9:00 am
Very nice to see strats from a non cookie cutter.
From a writing standpoint, leave out the inside jokes, and was one misspelling; nobody hides behind polls, except politicians. =)
Otherwise gret writing.
November 13th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Ironic that you misspelled great.
November 13th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Good writeup.
November 13th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Dota was a wicked game, i played that competitively prior to TBC. It got old, and i didnt have the time/money to get involved in traveling to pro tournies.
Great article, i plan on makin a 4dps aswell.. matches are quicker (win or loss), and it seems like more fun.
November 13th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Jolly Asian Clams will most likely be transferring to BG9 for the same competition reason. Looking forward to playing you guys if we do transfer.
November 13th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
This site seems like 50% pvp strategy, and 50% players advertising themselves.
Either way, not bad.
November 13th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
@22
I do understand where you are coming from with that comment, but I also do realize useful information from well known players seems to be more effective on the audience. If someone who is not known at all, or has a sub par rating, creates the same article, I would think more would be turned on to read the one from the well known player.
I am not saying that just because someone has a bad rating they might not know how to work with strategy, or you are only worth listening too if you are “popular” because starting this site, both Ziss and I were basically nobodies :). But we get these well known players to write articles here and there to give a wide variation and information people would like to read from “high end” experience.
November 13th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
I played an identicle 4 dps lineup on the “bad” BG Gumbot mentioned. I can attest to the sheer dropping power and CC, especially anti-caster CC, that this combo has to offer.
One point in which we differed though is that if the warrior began kiting around a pillar or some other similarly obnoxious LoS obstacle (I play the frost mage, of course I hate LoS) we would switch and try to burst down the shaman, especially if their paladin has already blown his bubble to keep the warrior up during our first burst. By putting CC on the priest and paladin, we are usually able to bring down the shaman. If that fails, we just pull back a bit and heal up, and start putting pressure back on that warrior.
November 13th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
What do you think Jolly Asian clams will be rated after switch to bg9 will it be a dramatic difference?
November 13th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
@Breaky
That’s because people need a name behind something to notice it’s quality
Happens everywhere.
November 13th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Edit: The “celebrities” are a nice touch for sure, but the site lives well on it’s own too.
November 13th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Nice to read, but now i have more questions then then answers ;). I’ also looking forward to an 4 DD Team cause i’m to old for games that took to long ^^.
I have one Question, you speak about a Szenario where the oposing Warrior and your Spriest die. I think that shoud be typical situation cause in my opinion even the 3 DD Team shoud play very aggressiv against your Lineup. You say, the Warlock will now drive the Team to viktory but i think you will be the next Target, on with Target do you fokus after the Warrior is gone?
I think it’s very hard to make sure that none of the oposing members start to drink. I’ve played a long time an holy Priest and always managed to drink, if the oposing Team don’t set the fokus on me…in Nagrand even without help from my Mates with ease. I realy think that your oponent now have the better linup vor the rest of the game..and your Team simply plays better ;).
I hope, that you will forgive me for my bad english.
@13: Maybe you are right, maybe this is one of the worst BG Pool like in Europe ;). For sure, even on newer Realms are good Players but typical there are some guys who start over and over again on new Realms to be the best on their new Realm.
To claim to be the best shoud be shown by a competition and not by speaking….and for sure not by Arenaratings. It’s simply stupid.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
/yawn….
This entire strat is completely based on the fact that your opponents are dumb enough to go on the offensive against a 4 dps team.
A smart team will use their priest as the offensive player because of the priest ability to survive caster dps so well. leaving their warrior to the rear to force you to either run through our team to get the warrior or attack another target. paladin, frost mage both of which are capable of wiping all of your dots, (wasting your Spriests mana) or (depending on team) Shaman, in my case warlock.
The most effective way to win is to move the hamstings between the shadowpriest and ele sham and then intervene out, all the while running backwards forcing the 4 dps team to either use cooldowns and go for the burst or retreat and reset. If they attempt to go for the burst make sure your priest is spamming rank 1 fort, spirit and renew on your warrior as to allow freedom the ability to stay on as long as possible. Next use the warlock pet to lock down the ele sham and the mage to lock down the spriest. A simply counterspell will do fine. once the DPSers are slowed move to dispelling the bloodlust. With bloodlust gone and mana running slim the 4 dps team will crumble due to the lack of any effective long game.
If the game allows get drains on the shadowpriest. Also your priest is very capable of dispelling UA just make sure to shield PoM renew before he begins to dispell, after the silence spam that dispell button and reduce the damage being taken. If you have it Pain suppression can be used as a great tool against 4 dps teams. Pain suppression should be use early as to reduce the cast time damage spells (mind blast, frostbolt, lightning bolt) as they are a majority of the damage.
Make sure your warrior and pally have a pillar behind them to run through.
If you find yourself continuously hitting a 4 dps team switch in a hunter and use the trap as an escape mechanism for your warrior (intervene acrossed it and run away). The 4 dps team requires time to get the kill spells off, so if your warrior can get far enough away they won’t get the chance to cast them.
-Another Breakdown by Witty
No team or player is perfect, find the weakness and exploit it.
November 13th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Who the hell is witty? Some moron who believed Pain Suppression was even remotely viable pre 2.3? Your theories are paper thin, and don’t cover enough bases to realistically break down anything.
November 14th, 2007 at 11:28 am
i think only the last small part of this article dealt with the other team playing offensive. Most of the time we deal with teams that play incredibley defensive
November 14th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Teams that play offensivly against this lineup soon learn not to. After the first game where their warrior charges in and catches the caster burst with his face as the paladin eats a counterspell or is forced to bubble (which usually isn’t enough to save the warrior anyway), they usually get smart.
Four dps against a team playing defensivly is like cracking an egg. The pressure must be constant and fierce to prevent your team from being shut down by their CC. The entire fight builds up to the point at which you either successfully converge to drop one of them and win, or you are forced back and overwhelmed by their more durable lineup.
Witty’s arguement downplays the 4 dps team’s ability to effectivly control the fight, especially at the beginning. It is much more difficult to shut down this 4 dps team than he portrays. Rarely will you take significant damage at the beginning of the fight, so long as your shadow priest remains relatively defensive, so the paladin is able to remove most CC at the onset, allowing for the casters to do their dirty deeds unhindered. If CC is placed on the paladin, and not on a dps, the fury of the opening with four unhindered dps is usually enough to crack a team. Often, our paladin is not even required to bubble out of CC during the most crucial parts of the match.
November 15th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I don’t down play 4 dps’s ability to CC, I just think that if you are remotely good at 5v5 your priest and paladin understand the importance of keeping each other dispelled. Every form of CC that this 4 dps team can throw at you is dispellable. I have played many 4 dps teams just like your the one choosen in this article there weakness is the fact that they are so reliant on CC in the early game. If the Pally and Priest (Just happens to be the 2 healers in my setup) can effective LoS and still heal the warrior or other DPS target they now force the 4 dps team to run to them to CC and interupt. Using hamstrings, frost traps, wing clips, and grounding totems you can prevent them from getting to you faster then you can run away. except for the mage but if the mage is willing to run to your pally a priest a hammer/fear/MC will do the trick just fine.
4 dps is a weak setup after the first 2 mins for the game. They have only 1 healer the paladin so hassling him with fear, sheeps, and CS put the shadowpriest on the spot. he either has to dispell the healer or continue to DPS without heals. Most times I see them continue to DPS, but most pvp shadowpriest are pretty dumb.
If you want to beat a 4 dps team, play from your heals and always be running away from them to a piller or LoS object until they have either blown blood lust or are running low on mana. keep them slowed as to not allow them the ability to stay in range for those cast time damage spells.
if you have a druid alternate cyclones between mage and warlock first. Then switch to paladin and shaman when you get the chance to go on the offensive.
THE ONLY ADVANTAGE THIS TEAM HAS IS DAMAGE. They have the same amount of CC and most of their damage is dispellable. Make them work to get those Dots on.
there is a reason why this team didn’t win in WSVG or World finals.
And the Pain suppression thing is for post 2.3, pre 2.3 priest were 28/33 or retarded
May 5th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Nice stuff from you, man. Ive read your stuff before and youre just too awesome. I like what youve acquired right here, love what youre saying and the way in which you say it. You make it entertaining and you still handle to keep it smart. I cant wait to read extra from you. This is really a great blog.